New Rules???

I couldn’t decide whether to post this in the current Rule Changes thread or under the Worlds 2008 thread as both have some discussion similar to my question, so I settled on a new thread asking the question. :?:

Directed mostly at WTD; what exactly will happen to our rules? Not sure if I fully understand (but I think I do), and figure by the questions in other threads many don’t understand, the role CMAS played in the generation/enforcement of the rules of our game. Basically letter head, with some constrictions on format and the way championships will run. The meat of the rules however is and was all UWHC from idea to print, right?

The issue now is, they are 100% CMAS property even if they had nothing to do with authorship other than letter head. Or am I wrong on this and the rules belong as much to the signed author Woody as CMAS, so we just delete references to CMAS and Rename where needed (I doubt this is the case)?? :?

So…. How do we draft new rules, in a year’s time that won’t change the game significantly OR infringe any copyright issues? As well WHO with the proper knowledge and experience has that kind of time??

I’m not trying to criticize what is out there or any of the decisions made (other than the name) but just *very* curious how we keep the sport the same sport.

Lena,

I did see the comment of "rules forced upon". Honestly, still have a hard time believing we had no say in this what so ever. I'll check for the rules in uw-rugby here in Sweden. If they're different,...

"erm" isn't this why they are leaving CMAS because everything was being forced on the UWH world, think I read that somewhere. several hundred times

first: Duck - don't say the 'leadership' when you mean Carol Rose. Put your blame where is belongs please. I used the term wet tidily winks - only as an example of irrevelance of title as you seem to find uw hockey so endearing.

second: you all find it hard to accept the idea of regulations being 'forced' because you live in English speaking countries (for most part) where there is democracy and rules/ regulations are discussed. Three times in 3 years I have attended and/or reped uw hockey at CMAS meetings of one sort or another. Once there, I and others were given a document of regulations. No preview, no time to read it, awful English translation, and we were told this will be approved, not discussed, approved tomorrow by the BOD. At the second meeting I mentioned, Graham was present, objected and recieved verbal ok to read, review and even re write document. I spent about 30 hours reviewing, correcting, fixing translation - my document never saw the light of day, and whole process started over with meeting #3. I keep saying and you all keep saying you don't believe it, CMAS is a dictatorship. And the BOD (excepting 4 members of 22) and about 80% of delegates at any General meetings support that dictatorship.

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Carol Rose

Unless you were the only one responsible for stealing the rules then I am still correct in saying it the way I did.

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Just in case you weren't sure, it's official -- CMAS sucks.
Oh yeah, and now they're broke.

from whom? does someone(s) own the uw hockey rules? originally rules created by BOA - if we agree they created the sport in 1954. Competiting IFs often have same or very similar rules - someone mentioned rugby league and karate comes to my mind - there are 2 very strong competing IFs world wide.

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Carol Rose

geez carol can we get the story straight?

what you have just said is EXACTLY the argument people have been putting forth, and you have been saying oh no cmas own the rules etc and thats why we have to change the name!

clarification please? are rules free for anyone to use? is the concept of uwh intellectual property owned by cmas or not?

if not, thank you i have been asking for an answer to that for ages, goodbye "aquachallenge", welcome back "uwh"!

if so, then yeah surely we will be stealing their rules?

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it's more polite on the grating than on the subs bench

Hey Mr Atepane do I have to speak very slowly here? I have read the answer to your question on 3 separate posts, Carol rose has answered it concisely before and so has WTD.

From my understanding of what is written on this forum the name change is because of some CMAS rule that says you cant play a sport for someone else if CMAS run the same sport. They have both said that they are trying to protect the other sports.

It has nothing to do with the rules as far as I can tell. I hope CMAS doesn't own the air we breathe whilst we are playing their game, but hey it might help if we cant use it.

Later Gator

Are we really changing the name due to a CMAS rule? That just doesn't make any sence!!
If you decide to split from CMAS, why have a name change according to an internal CMAS rule?? It's like if I would start living according to the Namibian legislation.

If the name "underwaterhockey" is not registered as an intelectual property, you don't change. It's as simple as that.

Check the facts and keep it simple.
Live is only as complicated as you make it.

Ok, just contacted a lawyer who knows the entire history and legal environment. You all know him, it's Romain.

The name UWH is not copyrighted, and can therefore be used by anyone.
The real problem is the rules, that are the intelectual property of CMAS.
Although created by the commission, it was in name of CMAS and therefore they are the owner. The fact that is was not a document made once, but modified over 9 times, proves even more that CMAS owns the rights.

If these rules, in any way, are used in Durban this could give CMAS a great posibility to strike. They can even forbid the competition of taking place. A similar action already occured in Switzerland during a Kind-ball game.
Changing the name of uwh doesn't change a thing to this situation, neither does reconstructing the rules. Even if 30% of the rules are the same, CMAS still has all cards in hands.

Unless the Durban organization finds a way to bypass this (hardly likely from a legal point of view) the only option they have is to make this a CMAS tournament and not calling it the World Championship, but for example the International Open tournament, or just World Cup as suggested earlier