The wrong way to train?

In many discussions we read about skills, technicks and tacticks.

But you can also learn from the other sides from training etc etc.

So what is not the way to train.

In my vision Underwaterhockey is an explosion way game were you need condition for short distanse that follows fast on each other. So train swimming many meters for swimming long distance is not the way. (like you see some clubs do swim swim and swim. THat is long distanse training and not training for an explosion sport like uwh)

Lets start the discussion.
But do not only say. "i do not agree or i agree" but also why.

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When you are good, then you are not bad..

I'll start and I'll only touch on the swimming for fitness aspect since that is all Sven mentions. You need both interval training (explosive) and distance training (endurance). Although the sport is a series of explosive plays, it does last for 30 minutes. Failing to train for the endurance will cause you to fail at the end of the games. The key is to find the right combination. Too much distance and not enough speed work will make a methodical but slow approach to the game. Too much speed and not enough distance will create holes in your team as recovery becomes an issue.

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Just in case you weren't sure, it's official -- CMAS sucks.
Oh yeah, and now they're broke.

I agree with what Duck says, although he is only focussing on one game. If you want to win a tournament then you have to be able to play as well in the last game as the first. Most tournaments that you will have played Sven would be one or possibly two day tournaments. Even then performance drops when endurance training has been neglected, but especially when you go to a major tournament where games are over a one or two week period then if you do not have stamina then you will not win a medal.

Hate to bring them up as an example, but at Worlds it was Colombia. They were extremely fit, but also played an incredibly demanding style of hockey. We played them first game of the tournament and last game, and their intensity had dropped on the last day - the reason we were able to beat them then. I think everyone at Worlds thought that Colombia deserved a medal.

People may neglect it because it is boring training to do, and doing lots of swimming can mean initially that your speed suffers. As you get closer to a tournament though, and shift your training to more sprint training the result is that you are faster,

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Faster than a speeding puck...

Indeed. 1game last only 30 minuts. More exactly 30 explosive minuts and not 30 long swim moments.

Indeed.

But for example in my past i was no underwaterhockey player but a fast swim long distance swimming. Something total different from Underwaterhockey and i did not have much help by it. I did swim easy 5000 meter but the first underwaterhockey games i played (at that time in Zeist 15 minuts games) i had total no help from it and i was happy as that 15 minuts were played.

After a time train short explosive trainings for some 20 to 30 minuts short distance i did have no trouble with it at all. A combination is good. But iff long distance becomes the mean training every training its a bad training.

But i did mentioned this exapmle by a bad training because you see it by the lowest rank teams by growing numbers that they not train short distance or even technicks and tacticks anymore and use all the trainingtime they have by swimming simpley distance.

But i hope that others also mention bad trainingstyles for all ranks. Not only seen or looking to the top rank.

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When you are good, then you are not bad..

More than likely while training to do 5000m swims you were mostly training your arms which gave you most of your speed. With hockey you have to switch the focus more to the legs. So of course it wouldn't transfer over directly, but I'd bet you were better off than people that came over from a non-swimming background. And had you been training to do 5000m kick, you would have been just fine.

Also the lack of breathing thing gets in the way. It sure is different than breathing every two or three strokes. I wish I had learned to breath like I do now for hockey back when I was a swimmer. I am pretty sure that I would have been a better swimmer. So if the teams are swimming using their snorkle and they do some underwater work during their 5000m workout, they should be getting a benefit for hockey. So it's not a bad thing. They just need to know that they need to work in some speed before a tournament if they want to be able to go fast.

And I don't think it is correct to imply that the lower ranks only swim for their training and that's why they are the lower ranks. Maybe that's true in your area, but for us the lower ranks usually just get in and play. Often showing up late, further reducing their chances to improve. And they don't have the quality players to raise the level so it makes it even harder to improve. It's a lot like the adage it takes money to make money. The better players you have the easier it is to get other players to improve.

With all that, you could train by only playing games and be fine if you are playing an hour or two a day for 5-6 days a week.. Or you could do meter after meter of swim workouts which include some underwater training and do most of your puck skill training on your carpet and be fine if you are getting in on occassion to play. Or you could do all of it and still suck, depends on the level of your desire and the play around you.

The one constant is that Hockey is more fun when you are fit and have fit players around you.

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Just in case you weren't sure, it's official -- CMAS sucks.
Oh yeah, and now they're broke.

Hockey is fun when you have a sportive way of play and 2teams. One to play in and one opponent. Without an opponent there is no Underwaterhockeyplay.

I did not say it in this way.

Because i see it also in other levels. And see that technicks and skills are redushing in all levels (became less important for them).

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When you are good, then you are not bad..

It depends how you define technique and skills. In the past I have seen a lot of younger players practising skills while lying static - and practising skills that are as good as useless in a game. If these players are using their time more wisely and working on puck control and handling, passing and turning, and abandoning the showy next to useless skills then whoppee.

And... I am curious Sven which levels you have seen? You refer to them reducing in all levels, but.. ahhh... I am not sure which levels you regularly see.

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Faster than a speeding puck...

I agree with Jols when he says technic and skills are often overrated by players (especially the young ones).
I am not a great player, and don't have amazing tricks, but as I used to say to the youngsters I trained: if everybody in the team can properly give a pass, receive one and swim like hell, you can already win quit a lot of games.

Furthermore it's up to players to take responsibilities. Every players should assure their endurance is optimal, especially when you have a long tournament. This requires a lot of long distance swimming, running, cycling or even rowing. But don't use the precious time you've got in the pool with the team for that. This is something players can easily do on their own time.
Pool time should be used for sprints, basic skils and lots of collectif play and strategy.

Whether players are ready to do so, of course depends on the level and ambition of the team.

Skils and technicks. Simply the basic is already more important then swimming distance.
For what level. For every level. FOr example a woman from the woman selection, used playing in the midfield as a game controller. But was compleet defenceless last game because she was used to swim and swim even at international level and did not have the skills to keep the puck when encounter every players from tilburg.

So simpley steel the puck technick were countering swimming distance. Because she did train distance were she did not have the skills to keep the puck in a encounter.

Like she did say herself and her team also. She was not happy by it. And did feel compleet useless agains a team that was theoretic compleet a world off levels less good but sees short distance so as 50 and 25 meter training and basic technicks more important than long distance swimming as mean technick.

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When you are good, then you are not bad..

oh, give us a break Sven!

NOBODY ever said that training technique is unnecessary. OF COURSE knowing the basic skills is important, which is what I said before. EVERYBODY will agree to that.

Fact is that you say swimming distances is useless. You base your analysis on a single game. Play a tournament for a week and let's see how well you would do if you don't have the endurance. Even if the girl had trouble stealing the puck from you (which probably also has something to do with body-weight) the more you move into the tournament,the moment she can take it and accelerate a bit, you'll be done playing. And yes, that means explosivity, which you also need to train and to which nobody would disagree with you. Main difference is that she will still be fit enough to do so, and you wouldn't.

Can't you just agree that training endurance is important as well, that there is nothing wrong with it, that it at best shouldn't be the main focus for team trainings and call it a day?