Thoughts on the 'extended finger'?

I personally wouldn't mind an interpretation for what Jols is talking about where as long as the puck contacted substantially by the playing area of the stick, the knockdown is considered legal (I know that putting this kind of subjective language in the rules caters to the favourite pastime of nitpickers, i.e. arguing, which is why I'm suggesting advancing it as a preferred interpretation for refs, rather than putting it explicitly in the rules). This would probably mean that players would continue to try to use their sticks to effect knockdowns, but would not be too harshly punished for what are comparatively small mistakes. But I don't agree with a wholesale legalisation of the use of the glove while the puck is airborne (though the players who use diddly little bats would love the idea).

The pic I attached is supposed to represent a puck which has been flicked and is being caught off the bottom.

And on the original topic, really the only players who get seen finger swerving are those who leave their finger out while they swim around the pool, so the status quo can probably continue and everyone will be happy

Attached Images

knockdown.jpg (13.1 KB, 10 views)

Well Jols, I dont think I need a qualifier, as I count your country and GB as the western part of europe. In Holland I have played mostly in Maastricht and Breda, and once in Amersfoort. But I belive I played in (qualifier ?) "almost" all of the pools where uwh is played for what goes for central, eastern and southern europe, in few I even help them started playing. Except the olympic pool in Munich, there are all <2.5!

But still, almost all of the pools are arround 2 meters deep, as this years EU champ in Istanbul will be as well. So, I still stick to my argument about problems of "<2.5m".

I would agree with Nicky's vision of letting the play go on with this addition... the puck must hit the stick first. I know it would be difficult to tell in some situations but in others it would be fine and easy. I think it should be play on if you hit the edge of the puck on the stick and it then flips down or sideways or whatever onto the finger of your glove. That is a good knockdown as you are not catching it or playing it with your glove any more than any other incidental contact. I completely disagree with Jols that you automatically try to catch it. Only happens if you practice that way. Or maybe I should say if you don't practice to do it right.

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Just in case you weren't sure, it's official -- CMAS sucks.
Oh yeah, and now they're broke.

Hey - don't get me wrong - despite the fact that when I'm playing I'm always trying to catch the puck on my stick as well - I don't normally catch it at ALL!!!

When I see the guys that DO have a bit of hand/eye coordination knocking pucks down, I'm always VERY jealous!!! Especially when they do it with their stick as well!!!! :-)

S

Hi Nicky: Pic 1 - no problems; Pic 2 - glove.

Pic 1 is really common, and most of the disputed catches are obviously going to be in that area. Whether it gets called or not will usually depend on where the ref is. As I said - I'd like to think that unless I clearly see the puck contacting more glove than stick I wouldn't call it - but my perspective and bad vis in pools are just two of things that probably affect my ability to guarantee that at times! :-)

The criteria of "unless I clearly see the puck contacting more glove than stick it's fair" is what I'd hope all refs are doing, and I don't think the rule needs to be changed, but it IS always going to be a somewhat subjective thing.

In the past I've seen a lot of top players both in Australia and at Worlds and SHCs who 'appear' to be practising catches on their hands when warming up (and have had people ell me they ALWAYS catch like that - or used to)!! Has been a bit less common in the last few years, but there are always a few people at the big comps who MUST always catch that way, because they seem to be unable to catch it legally (as I said - my excuse is just lack of coordination! :-) ).

Agree with you though, Duck - incidental contact after the catch is fine. As long as once it's on the pool bottom it's not controlled under the hand (something that also happens reasonably often!!!).

Oh, well thats fine then

Ahh, Duck, I would be surprised if you started agreeing with people now. Rereading my post, I get it, but maybe it is unclear. When I said 'automatically try to catch it' I mean't catch it with your stick.

Against doppies catching the puck is easy because they throw it too early. Lots of reaction time. In a top game the opponent can time that pass much better, so you have a lot less reaction time. Although I practice (quite a lot actually) catching the puck on my stick and stick-eye coordination, if the opponent flicks at the right time the best you can do is wave your stick at the puck. Practice makes perfect, you definitely get better at catching on your stick, but if you are telling me that you always catch the puck on your stick and never your glove then either:
1- you are playing against doppies
2- you never make any contact at all
3- you are a liar liar pants on fire

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Faster than a speeding puck...

Antwerp has an Olympic swimming pool going from 2.2 meters to 3 meters over 50m long. Width is 22 meters so you can put two official fields deeper than 2.5 meters.
Barcelona has a similar pool. Stockholm even has an official field on 5m if you want.
There are enough pools that qualify. The only problem is getting pool time or the price.

Thats great, Fred ! Anyway I like to travel a lot .
Slovenian teams have to travel: Maastricht 1100km, Eindhoven, Antwerp 1300 km, Barcelona 1650 km, Stockholm 1800km in one direction (sweden is playing?). The same distances apply for Italian teams. Add 500 km on top of that for the team comming from Serbia or Hungary, and 300 comming from Croatia....................
.......all that travel just to play in >2.5meters pool, but then again Holland has coffeshops and red light districts, and is so beautiful, its like a fairytale country. Every year I used to take - at least once - my team on Dutch tournaments. I have been there playing at least 15 times, and we all love Holland. In fact, Holland is where we started playing uwh in '95. Spain with its nice beaches and all that sunshine, and Stockholm... man, those swedesh ladies makes my neck hurt, just sitting in bar watching them pass by...

But I get it... probably what you all want to say is that deep pools are only needed for high-end play. Well, its getting higher and higher all the time... and the deep pools are not getting build, in fact our home pool had almost 4 meters depth, just a perfect field to play in.... guess what? They have shortened the pool from 33 to 25m and leveled the deep end on 2 meters deep. Why? Heating costs!

We have too many players on the field, where the depth is less than 2.5 meters.

I have a confession to make here. I'm declaring myself officially a very bad and incompetent refferee, as I'm not able to clearly see whats happening on the field in less than 2.5 meters. My incompetence is clearly there for about 30 % of the time, that I'm suppose to do my job as refferee. Please everyone out there organising any kind of tournaments be aware of this fact, before allowing me to ref any game! Its true!