Open Kampioenschap / Dutch Open Championship

if you'll look further up guys i asked about skills specifically because sven is obviously interested in them.

no-one is saying flashy weird skills are the only thing people should be raving about.

HOWEVER, i'm sick of people rubbishing "flashy" skills, and the old "oh that will never work in a game" type response to some new kind of skill. invariably the people who rubbish stuff as flashy, circus tricks etc, have never even put in time to develop the skills themselves to find out.

it's like declaring that brussel sprouts taste like crap without ever eating any.

any skill CAN work in games and all skills/methods of handling the puck are useful in the right situation, and can give you an advantage.


i wouldn't be surprised if in 2-3 years we see examples of some of the crazy, never before seen skills that sven has just described in games in all our home towns!

Mod's, this topic is going into another subject.

can we make a new thread from it?

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Liam, why did you have to bring brussel sprouts into it...we all know that brussel sprouts taste like crap whether you have eaten one or not!


Here's cheers to the basics,
Here's cheers to crazy skills,
Here's cheers to speed and strength,
Here's cheers to team play and tactics.

Everything has a time and place :-)

THanks Liam

But the most skills i said were older basic skills.
But like i and Carl already said:

can we make a new thread from it?

I will copy that posting from me in technick and skills
Then everybody can tell there favorite skill and we all can learn from each other.

NOOO why is it alway me that thinks othewise.
I like brussel sprouts. :cry:

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When you are good, then you are not bad..

You like brussel sprouts?

This explains a lot...

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Go the Brussel Sprouts! Little bundles of goodness :lol:

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With some sense of amazement I read the whole thread there. Just joined the forum, and was searching for mentions of my own club, Argonauta. I may be 3 months late, by here is my two cents worth:

- Sven, your high handed comments about how no-one in the Netherlands who is any good at hockey does anything to help others, frankly, gets right up my nose.
... I have been around coaching at clubs like Njord in Eindhoven. I don't go every week, that is true.
... Players from Argonauta went to Tilburg when you were starting out to help. Did you expect them to continue coming every single week until you all were international level?
... Argonauta made the suggestion to Tilburg that players come to Argonauta, so that they could see how we trained, and what sort of things a good club does to improve. The idea being that these players learn, and then return every week to their club to pass on what they have picked up. As I understand your complaints, you would prefer that others take the time to go to you every week, instead of you extending yourselves by learning something at other clubs. A teeny weeny bit selfish I would say.

Regarding the skills you saw at the tournament... I am sort of surpised that you would rate something you have never seen before (a skill then) above other 'normal' skills performed at a high level.

Especially new clubs/players need to concentrate on doing the basics right, instead of fancy pants skills that you can use once a tournament. Playing together, as a team, is also a skill that is often neglected by teams in the lower grades.

Just to help you out, here are the concrete individual skills you need to be an international forward, can't be arsed going to the new thread and posting them there:
- Pass
- Swim fast
- ah... that's it really.
If you can execute those well, you are going to play a worlds. The rest is candy.

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Faster than a speeding puck...

Very nice.
But keep the picture compleet.

Maybe now. but the first 3 years it was Tilburg that traint them.Only when eric did get in the b-seletion, argonauta did get in the picture. also because eric did train at that time by you and even played in the competition for you.
So were were you in the first years.(the most important years.) But yes i see the influence from breda by Njord. more swimming less skills and more dirty play.(like one player told us. we were told not to use those skills anymore.)

No we did not expect that. but yes there was a time that inge and daan v. opstal did came to us. Not to learnm us something but only to see us play...


Do you believe yourself..what you tell is very good when it happend that way but not how it did happend..as exapmle our first junior team was invited by you. and the fiirst there was ask/told was to forget tilburg and come by them. Also is those juniors and parents told that we were informed about that. Very nice to hear that the next week when you ask were all juniors were the week before by our own training.(from the juniors and parents.)Thats not sharing skiils that stealing players. We did travel after that to other clubs. not because they ask us. but because we ask them iff we were welcom. like dordrecht and the heiduikers.And still do so.

do you still dont now who we are? we help more beging clubs every week. and go to them. to learn them the basic. You pict the wrong people to point to them to be selfish. Iff there are players in the Netherlands that help new clubs its us. everywere in the country.

And at the point we were now. like some teams tell us. we are one off the most skillfull/sportive teams. only very lazy..

No it not supricing. seeing new thing its nessesairy to learn and improve. seeing the old basic. nice to see but not more.

Indeed. but i think we have very much more experiance in the netherlands then you the last 7 year with new clubs. And the first to learn them is indeed the basic. But when they now that skill after a time you can sometimes repaid it by the training but also learn them the other more fanshy skills. We are happy to see a new club to win from us. so we now we learn them all thing good.

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Sven selfish? Get your mouth washed out with soap. If there are persons in the Netherlands that are unselfish its really those twins. And that’s why they are the most popular persons in the first and second class. Maybe you don’t now that because the big shots really don’t care and even want to now what happened with those lower teams. He has really a point. Only again to nice. But that’s is those twins. And pretty normal in the Netherlands. I recognize his story and it does not only happen by Tilburg. But in the whole country.Those twins are the best consultants we ever had in the Netherlands. Done more then whoever.. I think they deserve I lot off credit for that.

I said that I think that the attitude that people should come to you to train you is selfish, and I stick by that. Sven and his brother may indeed be the most unselfish people in the Netherlands, but I think that expecting others to come and train you every week is selfish.

He does do a lot to promote the lower grades and that is wonderful for hockey in NL- he should get credit for that I agree. However he also dismisses the contribution of others and especially of the bigger clubs, and that is rather short sighted.

And no Sven - Inge and myself were in Njord for a training session before Eric started training with Argonauta, and before they made it to the first class in NL. Eric then started coming to Argonauta to train so that he could learn from us, and subsequently take what he has learnt back to Eindhoven. Good idea.

As far as the development of juniors go and your example - the simple truth is that those juniors may have been told that if they want to get good enough to play worlds - international level - then they should come to Argonauta, or Barramoenda now, in fact Barramoenda is currently the best choice in NL. Argonauta players are typically 30 - 50% of the selection, I have yet to see a Tilburger in the team. Surely if you are an aspiring hockeyer you would prefer to train somewhere where you can build to being National champion and an international player?

However, I absolutely agree that it is not very friendly if things happened as you described. These things have a tendency to be exagerated though, and it wouldn't suprise me if that was said by a 14 year old to your team.

About your team being lazy...did you notice my summary of the skills required to be an international? Swimming is 50% of it.

I can show you a new skill at the Argonauta tournament in a couple of weeks. I saw Tom do it once... I will see if I can flick the puck into my own head. That should impress you more than Benson passing 5 opposition players with 'simple' sidestep and scoring.

Better yet - the most beautiful thing that you can see while playing hockey is a team playing well together. Hopefully Once Were Warriors at the Argonauta tournament can give you some examples of what top hockey can be.

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