Impact of a Single Player?

So a question i've had in the back of my mind for a long time is; in underwater hockey how much impact to a team does a single superstar make?

Not sure why I care, but the whole political aspect of the discussions lately has my brain tired and I wanted some opinions about this one.

In basketball a single player can completly change the dynamic of the team and take what would otherwise be two even teams to very lopsided contest. In soccer or ice hockey it is easy to see the impact from a star, but there is no ability for them to dominate the game.

I waffle back and forth on my answer... so i'm left very unsure.

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An aquifer is a water bearing layer of rock or soil. Aquifers are separated by impermeable layers of rock or clay called an aquitard. Aquitard, however may sound a bit offensive to some, and therefore we will be changing the name to Aquachallenge.

firstly, can i just point out that amongst team sports, basketball and in particular US basketball is a pretty special case. basketball in other countries is nowhere near as dominated by individuals and the successful teams at events like the world champs and the olympics are generally teams that stand as a group of players and not as support to a dominant individual as some US teams do (not always, i think the nets a few years back were a good example of a "team" team in the nba)... sure, some big men stand out but teams are generally only dragged to a title by an individual in the states.

for a look at how that approach fares when matched against more traditional team play the results at the olympics are always interesting... no-ones in any doubt that if the best of the NBA competed they would win, but it's interesting to see the young stars used to operating alone crash and burn against the likes of... was it argentina in athens that won? but this topic is huge and i will have to wait to be corrected by our resident americans on matters of american sport

it's very hard to find other sports where an individual can assert so much dominance... certainly not in football or rugby, netball etc. you can have the best/fastest/most accurate finisher on the wing/up front/under the net and if you can't get them the ball and support them they will count for nothing.

back to the topic, (and it's an interesting one tuck, you're right it's nice to have something else to ponder) i think in uwh individuals can be very powerful but in any game where the level of player is fairly consistent, individuals can only influence as much as their team can allow them to. which i also think is the way it should be.

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it's more polite on the grating than on the subs bench

true atapene,the player will only perform as much as the team will allow them,

i wanted to mention about an individual superstar's mental approach to the game.

theres the technical/physical approach as atapene is talking about but also there is the mental approach.
there's always a player that has the intuition on whats happening in the game,the leader,the guy who holds it all togerther, usually the captain.
i think this can change a team from average to a super powered team(with all the right foundations eg training and team enthusiasm to win)

i play with a player and when we play in important games and i surface and watch him fight on the bottom,i really just wanna get back down there and help him out.
these players have a certain drive mentally and physically that are the pivet of any underwaterhockey team

ufff,why when you answer a question in your mind,it all sounds cool and laid out well and then your read it written down it looks like ****.

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top of de mornin to yeh

You are all crackers. If you had seen Zidane dominate against Brazil in the world cup semi last year you wouldn't say that. Pele also could do that.

And, indeed, agree with Steve, don't underestimate the impact such a player has on the rest of the team. I know when I play with a real attacking forward I always work extra hard to get into position to help him out because I see him doing great things. Lifts the rest of the team.

You can't though expect to put in a super player into a team of doppies and win worlds. Without a team of fit and skillful players (although less gifted maybe) that one player is flogging a dead horse.

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Faster than a speeding puck...

You can't though expect to put in a super player into a team of doppies and win worlds. Without a team of fit and skillful players (although less gifted maybe) that one player is flogging a dead horse....



exactly. i think you'll find when watching guys like zidane and pele, they happened to be surrounded by guys who knew very well what they were doing and were no slouches themselves.

drop pele or zidane into say, the nz football team, and they would stand out like dogs balls but doubtful be able to win the game. admittedly i think the standard of football is so high you could drop them into any of the top 15 ranked teams and maybe they COULD change the game though.

i think this particular debate is interesting as it is sometimes connected to how an individual approaches the game themselves.

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it's more polite on the grating than on the subs bench

Ok, so like Zidane and Pele, on two evenly matched GOOD teams they could be the deciding factor, but on two mediocre to poor teams they might not be able to be utilized effectively?

On the basketball point, this could be a very long conversation. For starters i've never been much of a basketball fan, and kinda resent the me attitude and singular superstar mentality. There are more and more foreign born players entering the NBA every year because of their solid fundamentals and team skills. I would argue though just because the other national teams are more team oriented and their success is based on solid team tactics, a single superstar player CAN still make a huge difference, their teams are just oriented toward good team play.

So I'll accept that in Soccer a singular player can make a big difference. Is it the same impact or less for Underwater Hockey? the team has to be able to utilize the player and still play solidly, but will their impact be more along the lines of raising the level of game of their teamates rather than super hero actions by himself?

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An aquifer is a water bearing layer of rock or soil. Aquifers are separated by impermeable layers of rock or clay called an aquitard. Aquitard, however may sound a bit offensive to some, and therefore we will be changing the name to Aquachallenge.

I agree to the fact that the team's performance does not depend upon one player.

As for Pele and Zidane, I don't think their presence had much effect on the players' skills, but only on their mentality like Steve already pointed out. The Belgian team of Anderlecht had a Swedish player for a while (Per Zetterberg). You could see the difference when he was on or off the field because he brought ease in the team when needed.

The important factor to keep in mind (in my opinion) is the level of the players. Good players with lots of experience (like all of you guys) will have the mentality to help out.
Players with a lower level have the tendency to step back and let 'the star' play. They feel they don't want to ruin his game or feel confident when he has the puck. You surely must have experienced it all when playing with beginners.
In such teams, the star might have a negative impact on the team results. Especially if he or she can't change the mindset of the players.

oooo nice point fred, I have also seen beginner types who half heartedly attack a star type player almost expecting to get burned and then just float to the surface when they do get beat, but a better player will attack that star harder and stay with the play longer... does the "star" bring out the best in their opponents as well?

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An aquifer is a water bearing layer of rock or soil. Aquifers are separated by impermeable layers of rock or clay called an aquitard. Aquitard, however may sound a bit offensive to some, and therefore we will be changing the name to Aquachallenge.

generally from my experience the star player doesn't dominate the game (at the higher levels); but they have that ability to pull something out of the bag at the crucial moment in the game - a starry move, a big pass, a surging swim, something that completely breaks the play open swaying the game their teams way.

that's for uwh by the way

but will their impact be more along the lines of raising the level of game of their teamates rather than super hero actions by himself?


i think depends on the player you're talking about, but i'd like to veer of the "star" references and just talk about what different kinds of players bring to the game. some players have an ability to pull something out of the bag, maybe break the defensive line when its unexpected and score or set up a goal (these players are usually exceptionally fast or strong)... but then again some players can make big impacts in a weird hard to define kind of way, simply by being very consistent at what they do, utterly reliable (and these players are usually very fit or maybe just really really determined people)

i like the fact that different types of players can bring their own values to a team in different ways... but this applies to all team sports probably. what on earth am i waffling about.

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it's more polite on the grating than on the subs bench