Tactics

I just thought I'd post something as a frustrated observer to this thread... by no means do I think I'm as qualified as some contributors, but still, I have confidience in my knowledge of the sport!

This thread is like hitting your head against a brick wall, or perhaps even a tiled pool wall. Here are my observations and I will try and refrain from mentioning names....

To start with, initially the question posed to share "tactics" or strategies involved in playing the sport at an elite level:

Seemingly a simple question, suddenly transformed into a can of worms when immediately proceeding it, this was written:

This whole thread seems to be spinning around in a debate between people who are offended by that sweeping statement, and others who are inconcise in what they are communicating.

Firstly, if you ask for knowledge to be shared, you must have an open mind and a willingness to accept it - not shoot it down and dismiss it as wrong everytime someone offers to share. Secondly, respect must be shown towards all contributors to a thread, and an understanding that players and coaches from all levels are accessing and contributing to this forum.

Now, to reclarify what this thread is about.... its a shame I can't poll this...

from this point should it be:

a) an endless debate on whether underwater hockey and waterpolo are the same sport except with one submerged...

b) again, an endless debate on the hierarchy of underwater hockey and the snobbery of the elite to the sub-level (and vice versa)

c) and again, an endless debate on whether tactics used by World Elite teams are "very old" and boring

d) or alternatively, an open-minded and respective discussion on team strategies used at various levels of the game, contributed by a hugely varied group of players.

Here's a tip - pick 'D'. My guess is this option will cause less headaches and frustration, and will result in a more productive and educational discussion.

Aaaah.... I'm glad I got that off my chest

@ Alexandra
You are a admin. Maybe you can close the discussion were you react to and splitt it, beginning with this reaction below and the 2 tactics inside the mean tactics i placed below it. And everybody start sharing like the discusion with technicks/skills. I'm open for discusion and sharing. And i can tell i learn much from the discusions out here. and i hear it from others to. So letts start sharing.

Yes that was the first question. Is there
nothing chanced after the world in 2000
And mayb e some people can/will explain more about tacticks inside a tacticks?

So everybody share your basic tacticks........inside the tacticks

So back to the first questions...
What is the tactic the top off the world play with?

Till now there are 3 mean tactics
1.The zone positional play (specialists)
2.Power speed play
3.Non zone positional play (alrounders)

Iff any is better? that really depends on the players and there skills.
And by all tacticks you must train to do it good and have a team to do it.

Letts talk about the tactics inside the main tacticks
This inside tacticks can be the same in every tactic.

So who want to explane some:
like:
1.The umbrella
2.Hammer
3.Jols hammer
4.full steve


etc all tactics in a tactic from the world 2000
Or other (new) ways to take a free puck/startpuck/breakout etc..
Like the 3 wayfree puck i seen by reading england.
that looks like a way we use also. (i have no name for it.)
The main thing about it is to have non or only one player between the opponents.
A sort off counter free puck. (i will explain after i make some drawings from it)

But maybe also some ways to hold a free puck against your team.
How your teams do those. Like do you block it massive or not. I now we do not do that.
We put one or 2 players 0.5 meter behind the ref lines and the rest form a depth defence
so a fast breakout/throuch is not possible(i will make a drawing off that to)

So everyone. Start sharing. it does not have to be the latest tacticks inside the mean tactick also old ones are not always shared in the way everyone nows how the work or how to do them correctly.

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When you are good, then you are not bad..

I be the first

A tactic that is used in the worlds 2000 in Hobart-Australia
Who can tell more that what it told here? About the umbrella

The Umbrella (free puck)
1.#6 goes down immediatly so when he starts swimming, he has a shoirt route to get under the umbrella
2.All three must go down at the same time
(before opponents thus soon)
Heads down,m feets high
3. #6 immediately with speed as to enable to get under the umbrella
4.#5 moves in and around to come up the back wall
5.#6 keeps on swimming but iff he flicks it becomes a "hammer"
6#4 stays out to guard against breakouts.

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When you are good, then you are not bad..

I think Mareh likes this one.
quote mareh

The Hammer
A tactic inside the mean tactic used in 2000 at the world in Hobart-Australia


The Netherlands hammer

1.The arrow ko is started with the #3 position in the middle
2.The #4 and #5 are close to forwards with there head on the inside knee of the #1 and #2 respectivelly
3.When #3 wins the KO he immediatly gives a "small"pass after which all go mad by
4.Trowing the puck forward and slightly inwards whenever you get it or when it lands in front off you.

Key things to remember:
1.All or non...
2.Close toghetter all times.
3.The first flick is not so big.
4. from then flick it when you get it without hesitation.

__________________
When you are good, then you are not bad..

yes sven i like it because its simple.
in slovenia we never use any special tactics. in Amersfoort (EUchamps) our guys were playing 1-1-1-1-1-1 formation, and nothing changed from then. This formation allows enormous quantities of tactics in tactics. works miraculous even against better teams, because they dont consider it as tactics. With this kind of game i think we can win Bari games.

Now lets get serious.

I think people are afraid to share secrets. For example: i can tell how i prepare material for the gloves, but that wont help most of people, becouse these materials are not available for sale in shops. its made for industry purpose, and contains chemicals that are harmful to humanbeings and animals (once the material is dried, you can eat it and sheet it without any damage)

In age of vast developement of IT and communications, knowledge has become more and more valuable. Think of industry espionage, intelectual propetrty, blah blah blah. People feel safer, when they are not sharing their "secrets".


You have some classic tactics in front of oponents bin like umbrella, or hammer when going for the puck.i think most players know this things and consider it.


Bu i still hope this topic has some future

all the best M

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kurac pička govno sisa RASMC
http://www.phljubljana.si/pictures/razno/uwh_gloves.htm
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i cant believe this. this forum has 164 members, and nobody wants to share anything about tactics, except Sven? Not even the basics ?
I cant believe people has so much to say in a topic called special fins for the ladies !?!

i guess 162 members of this forum are satisfied with their tactics, and dont wan to change a thing, or ?

at least Svens post deserved a comment.

bye

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kurac pička govno sisa RASMC
http://www.phljubljana.si/pictures/razno/uwh_gloves.htm
http://forum.phljubljana.si

Hmm, you're right you know Mareh.

Carl, can we create a thread under 'The Game' called 'Formation and Tactics'?

This really requires multiple threads so we can spread things out and dissect the issues a bit. Part of the problem with this thread is people trying to encompass too many concepts in too short a space.

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Thanks. Mareh

The next one.

A tacktic used inside the mean tactic in hobart 2000 australia by the Netherlands

Name the Jols Hammer.
It's a "hammer"but done something differently then the normal " hammer"

Jols Hammer
1.All three must go down at the same time (before the opponents do...thus soon)
2.#3 takes the puck with #1 and #2 slightly behind him. All three swim onto the opponents.
3.#3 can do a Jols/Benson. A hammer(flick forwards.) or "lose it to back for #6 to piuck it up and join in the umbrella/hammer
4.Once #6 has them tied up he can pass wide/deep to #5 who can cut around and put it under the hammer again.
5.#5 stays out to guard against break-outs's



Whits thoes and many other tacticks insiode the tacticks the Netherland became 7th at those games.

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When you are good, then you are not bad..

Actually they came 5th...

Right in front of NZ...

Jols picked up the hammer from a tactic NZ used to great effect in the '98 games. Only difference is in '98 we made a point of not letting the puck off our sticks (i.e. not flicking forwards). I don't like the idea of not having the puck on somebody's stick, it smacks of a lack of control (but that's a particular hobby horse of mine so maybe it's ok). It would be interesting to compare the effectiveness of the two.

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It's not whether you win or lose - but whether I win or lose.
www.BentFishDesign.com

Since '98 I think most countries have adapted their own Hammer, regardless of the name. From personal experience I think keeping the puck on the stick as long as possible is best. I've been on teams now where the plan was:
a) to flick big past the opponents first line then swarm them.
or
b)To just use small flicks to keep the puck moving toward the middle of the goal exactly as described in the KO Arrow.
or
c)for the team to do whatever it could to keep the puck on the center's stick swimming it forward.

Depending on how the opponent's Defense is set some combination of keeping it on a stick and using only short flicks when needed after clearing the first line. It seems anytime the puck comes off the stick there is potential for the defense to get possession, and in this situation if they see what is coming there is a possiblity they can get their own break-away around the side. If it's kept on a stick better chance the worst to happen would only be for the defense to gain control and swim it to a wall but not mount an imediate counter attack.

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