uw engineers challenge

ok, all you tech savvy uwh-players out there.
Here comes the challenge of the century in uwh equipment development.
Nope, not talking about the latest fibre fins, nor the optimal stick.

Who of you can develop a buzzer system that can be remotely controlled by all three refs during a game?
Quit a challenge if you ask me.

Unfortunately I can't promise the winner that much, except for the eternal gratitude of the entire uwh community and a place in the uwh history books of the guy that speeded up the games.

I am far form being an engineer, but don't think it should be that hard. Three remote controls in waterproof cases that are link to a relay triggering the buzzer. Preferably with multiple frequencies allowing the use of several systems at the same venue.

What do you say? Am I dreaming or can this be done?

Fred,
the main problem is the water. It's not the best enviroment for RF transmissions, in fact it's one of the worst cases. Of course, you can always increase the output power, but then you will have a huge battery every WR should carry.
I remember doing some tests with some piezoelectric resonators some time ago. The idea was to develop a handy buzzer. The results were good, but it wasn't loud enough to cover the pool. You could hear it 5/6 meters away.
Maybe I should look at my gadget box, they should be there.

Regards,
Sebastián

Maybe a silly idea?
Sometimes when there are to less reffs you see reffs with a simple tube with metal pieces in it. When shaking it gives a sound signal.

THat is maybe also possible with a electronic way. Same principe as sending a signal to some outside signal tube or bell only a little bit smaller. So you have no problems at first with sending a signal.

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Try to understand. "By winning you can losses more then by loosing.

No, it's not a silly idea at all... I found some papers/projects about using sound waves as carrier for transmitting data underwater... It might work, I need to do a research about which devices can be used as emitters/receivers, I don't know if they are easy/cheap enough...

even in 1992 size was an issue/problem. buzzer was size of can of hair spray/large beer/ etc so bulky. quite frankly I don't remember how it was attached to ref hand so that ref could activate it, but it wasn't easily done. but I think the lack of continued interest says how successful and accepted it was. Again it only worked to 1.8 m, and there were, I think, some kind of receivers in corners of the pool. Referee at 2 m had to raise hand up to activate. Someone in NZ must have built it as WC in Wellington - ask Murray? Ray?. No one has tried again in more than 20 years.

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Carol Rose

every year at DEMA, large dive trade show in US, I look and look and ask around. Tried Dive Alert - doesn't work underwater. Talked with all sorts of manufacturers including maker of Dive Alert. Of course they are not terribly interested in developing for a sport they never heard of, but they do listen and scratch their heads. Dive boats here in California have uw call to return to boat, but I am sure the device is not hand held. Maybe I'll talk to Oceanic at next show. They are local to me, and I know the owner, Bob Hollis, on a somewhat personal level. Maybe HDS - Historical Dive Society mite have some ideas - great group of old farts.

We have come a long way in general. 1980 we used a gong - beat the poor thing to death by end of the week (also played whole event, 5 days, with one puck! which Aussies stole when they won). 1992 saw the hand held water ref system once. I don't remember what was used in France; I was not refing 1994. In 1996 we blew a whistle into a microphone in one pool; gong in other. 1998 Woody developed a pretty good uw system we (US) still use today (was also used in 2002 Canada), but water ref waved thru out all those years including 04 and 06.

Rob's computer timing/scoring system presented in 04 was BIG step forward; 06 computer system had some draw backs, but still big improvement. SA has a computer system I worked with in 2003 SH, but it crashed a lot including once when toddler pulled plug out of the wall!

As I said uw rugby has nice system but not if refs swim; their refs use scuba and only have about 8m to cover and them seldom if ever get into play or away from sides uw. and I will say it causes some confusion to players and deck ref as no one has an idea of what call or stoppage is, so scuba clad water refs have to surface and signal. But uw rugby is quite different from uw hockey, so comparison is not useable.

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Carol Rose

I have few suggestions to anyone that wants to develop refferee signaling system for uwh.

Such a system does not need to work underwater at all! What it needs, is to have a watertight casing and antennae mounted on the refferee's cap or top of the snorkel. It can be even easier to use already existing system and adapt it to become watertight. This should be simple and cheap solution. It needs to work only at 3 different frequencies, as there cant be more than 3 playing grounds in the same arena. Dont forget to put a button on the buzzer, as when it won't work, refferee's will have an option to do it the old way. For all it goes, if you can find a hand-held electronic remote trigger for any aplication, you can use the same electronics, and mount it in a watertight casing, and there you have it. Instant buzz, but only when ref puts a hand out of the water.
Chief ref will have easier job, watching the fauls on the surface and substitution.

There is even another way to do it, but the buzzer will have to be small enough and have small energy usage. Mount the buzzer on the refferee ( very small backpack), and there is no need to transmit any signal. One small watertight box will be all thats needed. The buzzers will have to have 3 different sounds. This might be even easier to make, cheaper and more reliable system. Instant buzz period.

And there is even a third system, thats the easiest to do. Put small scuba tank (1 liter up to 5) in the small backpack (or mount it on a backplate, preferrably plastic not stainless). On the tank, mount some old 1.st stage on it, with only one low pressure hose, and mount a scuba buzzer on the end of it. 1 liter tank shoud be enough for several games, 5 liter for all of the tournament. A regular scuba tank of 15 or 18 liter, and a high pressure hose can easilly re-fill the smaller tank when its needed, in much less then 3 minutes, witch is the usual time between the local games. For bigger championship, there is a need to find 2 or 3 distinct sounds of the buzzer. For those that never scuba dived, scuba buzzers are very loud, and just about every scuba shop sells them, and can make this system for you, just by reading my post. Total cost should be under 100 eur per unit. There is NO servising cost, and such a system is bound to work for long long years, just remember to make A-testing of the small tank every 2 years (you dont want to have a tank explosion). Instant buzz anywhere, for cheap money.

Rudi

I'm already trying to find all the parts and asemble the units, and will bring it this saturday on EU club championship in Ceske budjevice (CZ).

That is, if Tony agrees with the testing of my system...? What you say Tony, eh?

Rudi

Keep us informed.
Also when you have a problem. Maybe somebody out here can solf it for you and the rest of the world.

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Try to understand. "By winning you can losses more then by loosing.

Sure thing Sven. Tommorow, I hope to have first unit ready, and will test it on our club training session. I'll try to make some photos, we'll see how it goes. Will post it here