Training Challenge - podcast part 1, nutrition discussion

hi all,

i am just getting into the swing of training and i have a wee challenge going with benson, he is trying to lose some weight and i am trying to put some on.

in the past putting on weight has been all about eating for me... i would like to get some pro advice so this is a thread for carl and/or others to teach me/us some stuff.

my vague understanding of putting on weight for me has been... stress muscles, eat a bit of protein, eat way more energy stuff than i need so my body is forced to turn some of it into gaining weight. it's worked in the past.

it's a horrible chore for me and i hate it. i have to eat tonnes just when i am training normally to maintain weight cos as soon as i get in the pool to train the weight melts off me... witness, first 6 weeks floating round in turkey with crazy diet and no training but lots of pool time, and i went from 81kg to 73.

anyway. carl, here's my figures.

at our last camp a couple weeks ago i was 73kg ish (i dont trust those gym scales, the airport scales said 75). i am aiming to hit 85. i need to do this before benson manages to slim down to 95. if i fail, the world will end and benson will triumph.

the last time i had a body composition test done, these were my results... done by a prof nutritionist.

February 2006

Weight: 79.0

Skinfolds (mm)
Biceps: 3
Triceps: 6
Subscapula: 9
Supraspinale: 6
Iliac crest: 10
Abdominal: 8.25
Thigh: 10.5
Calf: 5

Sum of sites: 57.75mm
% body fat: 10.09
kg body fat: 7.97
Lean mass (kg): 71.02
Power to weight ratio: 89.9

it'd be nice to only increase lean mass but i'm not bothered about fat percentage etc. (if i hit 85 but i look fat, i'm disqualified... no supersize-me diets allowed)


currently i'm eating 3 meals a day and snacking in between them...

porridge, lots of tuna and rice, pasta, some meat, fruit, some veg (but lets be honest not enough), soups, shakes(banana/egg/milo/milk/creamed rice) ...and the odd fast food stuff of course.

i've never kept track of my food before but i have done for the last week or so, and have been averaging around 3500 calories a day.

gym sessions 4 a week, one legs, one back/shoulders, one chest/arms, one maintenance... trying to stick to large muscle groups and using things like supersets cos i dont have a spotter. i have some programs already sorted out which worked for me last time, plus the maintenance day is to work a lot of smaller muscles to fix/maintain muscle imbalances i developed in my shoulder from stupid inside flicking, and some sports specific exercises, mostly small stuff. programs are from PTs and physios.



....um. oh yeah and rules of the challenge state no amputations or implants.

so what do you recommend carl? you have already laughed at my cheap suggestion of eating kilos of skim milk powder every day.... i hate paying through the nose for protein powder etc which i dont think work much anyway... plus, they give some people bad wind. especially some of my ex-flatmates. i've heard. but i had a weight gain powder last time i did this which seemed to work pretty well, not protein, i assume just energy.

SURELY there is something in the supermarket thats cheap and will provide the same energy content as those drinks? ...cookie mix? lard? any ideas?



so anyway, open to bright ideas and suggestions.

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it's more polite on the grating than on the subs bench

This requires a Podcast to answer properly.

We'll get that done tonight.

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Slayer of Trolls amongst other things.
Made for the Love of a Good Woman, and not a bad little player too ;-)
Chumba Concept Salon
Professional Hair Stylist

From an admittedly skinny paua diver I know, several kilos of pasta should do the trick.

For reference, four days a week he dives commercially, picking up an average of 300kg of paua in a standard eight hour day. He burns between eight and ten thousand calories a day, which he gets from a porridge breakfast, raw paua during the day for protein and as many helpings of tomato pasta as he can in the evenings, usually a couple of kilos over several hours.

3500kcal on a heavyish training schedule doesn't seem like much for someone trying to put on weight with a presumably quickish metabolism. Unless I've got it very much mistaken, the energy content of protein is about 4200kcal/kg and muscles are ~20% pure protein, so you need an additional 840kcal for each kg of muscle you put on. If you take away the amount you use repairing tissue, wasted on actually metabolising your food and what you burn, you're not looking at much left over.

i believe your around 27,well as young as you are your body is gonna start to begin to slow down in the next few years,loss of muscle tissue,increase of fatty tissue,not to mention slower and more prone to injury,yes its all ahead of you.at 35 i'm starting to crink and crank like an old engine,its a dam scary process.
anyway
maybe concentrate or get more advice on the way you eat your food.
i cant eat the same as i did 8 years ago so i was reading about doing the best i can with the calories i eat.
recently i learned that one should not eat protein and unsolube carbs(pasta rice etc) together.
it gives wind and the tummy needs different enzymes to breakdown protein and another type to break down carbs so the the two dont go together.
so porridge in the morning
then tuna at 11 am
then spagetti at lunch
etc etc
its hard but you wil feel less bloated and lighter in the water
if we train 5 to 6 times a week,somedays twice a day.just how long does it take to break down pasta rice meat,its all heavy stuff,where's the time to digest.
so parting all these carbs and proteins makes less work for the body.

also have you looked into a vitamin like complex b12 for transformation of energy.
maybe your just missing the right chemicals to turn those carbs into power.
im sure theres lots of little changes out there you can do to you diet to help.
training
well as you know high weight low reps for bulk but you dont want that for hockey so your stuck there.

ps
i love liga or farleys rusks(baby's food),tons of calories and vitamins and very tasty.

oh quick question last night i did an hour of weights then i did some anaerobic stuff
my muscles just woudnt move..
when is the best time to do weight training.

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top of de mornin to yeh

Can we make bets on the outcome? Cause frankly I think the chances of Liam gaining 10kg is higher than the chances of Benson losing 47kg.

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Faster than a speeding puck...

Intersesting problem. I wish I could understand what you must be going through.
I think the key is weight training and nutrition.
You have figured out that you must eat more than you are burning. But by strength training you increase your metabolism and burn more calories. and so on. the cycle never ends right.
the weight training must be a balance, a very fine line, between encouraging muscle mass and stimulating your metabolism to burn more calories. I feel that a balanced strength training routine (like you described) using higher reps, 12 -15 repetitions, may increase muscle size and mass quicker than using heavier weight low rep workouts. But strength training is a long term commitment and usually not a way to win a short term bet. The first gains you will notice will be from increased water and fluid retention in the muscles.

One of my collegues, a tall skinny basketball player, says to plan your daily meals and stick to the plan. When it is time to eat eat what you determined you need. Not Hungry to bad. 5 meals a day. He says it is not fun, but it worked for him.
Can't wait to hear what Carl has to say.

B-

I don't know about that - Benny can lose the mass pretty quickly when he sets his mind to it / sorts his diet out. Liam is "cursed" with an amazingly fast metabolism...

It'll be pretty close...

I'd say losing 47 kg would be a daunting task but I doubt that is his goal. Could you be 142 kg? Goofy American measurements and a quick double plus would put him in the 300+ pound range. Nothing a little vacuum work wouldn't fix. Benson, you must sound bigger in your messages than you are in person.

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Just in case you weren't sure, it's official -- CMAS sucks

OMG LOL!

We really need to go to school on this.
How many urban myths, 'i heards' and fads are there out there?
The podcast didn't happen last night (Liam prob feel asleep) which may be a good thing. Can we get some more questions and myths posted so i can answer them in the interview?

Post anything about training and eating.

ps; Steve, you can't recommend an eating program and then tell everyone that you couldn't preform at training. The problem with your performance was your superior diet.
What was wrong as the feul you gave your body.
I'll get to it in the podcast.

__________________
Slayer of Trolls amongst other things.
Made for the Love of a Good Woman, and not a bad little player too ;-)
Chumba Concept Salon
Professional Hair Stylist

actually i have had to give the nice shiny laptop i had back to nzuwh, and i have retrieved my old computer from the depths of matts basement and it's royally crap, with technical issues.

i was going for 4000 a day cos a friend of mine similarly lean did that for a couple months and put on 5kg of muscle around his shoulders eating baked potatoes every night until he hit the 4000 mark before he went to sleep... some may laugh but i saw it work so there must be something in it.

i really disagree with the comments that pasta is heavy food needing digestion time... you must be crazy. i can literally eat a full saucepanful of pasta at night and wake up starving unless i have a piece of steak with it... the stuff disappears in my stomach insanely fast.

so can we go over all these things in the cast carl, and you can go debunking all the wrongisms?

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it's more polite on the grating than on the subs bench