2009 CMAS Games

Perhaps it is resolved, but I haven't seen an official letter from C-org stating so posted anywhere. Have you Fred? Did you get one sent to you personally? Have you actually seen one or are you spouting hearsay? I saw that Tony said he was told of approval of his no ban approach. But he also said that Aus didn't get their membership fees in or something along those lines only to have Graham say otherwise. So words from people on this really don't mean that much until there is some sort of official item posted. Especially concerning something in which so much planning in time, money and training are involved by the individuals that want to play. But hey, maybe I missed the posting and it is out here somewhere. It could happen. I have seen too many vague non-answers come out that I might me a bit more skepical than you so I would have a hard time putting faith into something that is said one way, then another. You know, this stuff was supposed to be decided already yet they don't even have final approval more than a year out of the event. This is just another of the things that make you go hmmmm. To me it's as shaky as the time leading up to the Durban Event.

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Just in case you weren't sure, it's official -- CMAS sucks.
Oh yeah, and now they're broke.

Tony

How would they view refs from SA in that case.? If I can I would like to see how things are done at other Championships.
George

how come the CMAS games do not include an Under 19's section?

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Sawston Piranha\'s website: www.gbuwh.co.uk/sawston

georges

referees will be welcome from anywhere .it will be up to the chief referee to appoint them

Why don't the Olympic Games have an under 19? These are the Games baby, no space for that sort of separation. They are making the Masters and Juniors play their World Champs at another time and location.

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Just in case you weren't sure, it's official -- CMAS sucks.
Oh yeah, and now they're broke.

Duck that's not quite true as CMAS have never even mentioned the likely hood of running a U/19 or masters world championship. There 2nd games are coming up and there has been no discussion about a championship for these groups. It obviously was never in their grand plan and its the end for world championships for masters and U/19 under CMAS.

Also does anybody know who the Chief referee is for the CMAS underwater hockey commission? Was he or she appointed at their meeting, and when was that meeting of their members. How does a member have a say in the CMAS commission as I would like to know because my federation is a member?

Cheers
GH

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WAA The best in Underwater Sports

CMAS has about 7 or more uw sports: skin spear, fin swimming, uw oritenteering, target shooting, apnea, uw rugby, uw hockey and maybe a new one or two I've seen mentioned. CMAS main interest has always been fin swimming (potential Olympic sport), and fin has all sorts of CMAS competitions and championships, at junior (what we would calll under 19s or more accurately now under 18s) and 'senior' levels.

But no other sport, none, has CMAS approved junior and/or masters competitions. UW hockey did have them; caught hell (loudly) from CMAS for having them - If you look at the CMAS main page on website, I think you'll see a fin swimming junior competition coming up.

Duck is right, Olympics only have elite competitions - age limits as set by each individual sport IFs - ie FINA, etc. We know some sports allow very young athletes (under 18s) - ie swimming, gymnastics, diving, etc.

But remember, the major sport IFs are huge - long history for many too - some sports over 100 yrs old. They have large well paid headquarters, staff, programs, and their member countries also have full programs, support and staffing. Some of the Olympic sports have 100 countries in their field - ie basketball, soccer, etc.

CMAS has about 60-70 countries when all uw sports are tallied. Fin has about 40 countries; others far fewer (ie hockey at about 25; rugby at about 15; etc). And skin spear does have over 30 countries, but no one likes to talk about 'that sport.' CMAS has tiny office and about 1.5 paid staff. They are very far behind in all aspects to catch up - competing with PADI in training and Olympics programs. And they don't have the resources: time, money, staff, programs, It is unfortunate.

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Carol Rose

On the risk of being labeled as "CMAS biggest fan" (although certain people here are blind to any critical note I also have on them), I think it is unfair to say that CMAS is prinicpally against running u19 comps.

During a meeting we once had with Ferero he said there is no problem holding U19 comps when there are 10 countries or more participating. The only problem is that we don't get to 10.
Of course this is kind of a vicious circle. Not many countries will be motivated on getting a team together when there is no championship they can grow.
In finswimming it is easy to have 10 countries as you only need 1 athlete from each.

Furthermore, comparing uwh with other sports is very tricky. As Carol says, we can't really compare ourselves with sports that are fully developed. Also Ferero needs to understand he is not running f*cking FIFA (international soccer ass).
Nore can we keep looking back at the past and say "but we have always done it that way".
Truth is that uwh is in its adolescent phase. There IS no more room to have elite, U19 and Masters all at the same time. We can have them at the same venue consecutively if we want, but mixing everything has become impossible.
Sheffield was an extrodinary champ, but would have avoided nagging from countries etc if the elite had been in one week and masters and juniors in the other.

The split, however, has created an unexpected turbulence we must pass before focusing on the further growth of our lovely sport to adultary.

I think we need to think in the future and not in the past.. you can learn with the mistakes made in the past and do it better in the future .

I think it would be very important at least to try to get together the under 19 and the elite as the " kids " usually look at the olders and try to do the same.

Maybe its hard to organize a competition with every grates .. but as Fred said maybe do it in the same location running one after the other.. but I think the firts to compete always should be the under 19 as they can get a chance to stay there and watch learn , otherwise Im not seeing the elite teams staying to watch the under19 playing. The Masters also could be made as the same time as the under19.

For the 2009 Cmas games they shoud have under19 teams even if there is only 4 or 5 teams. I think if you announce with proper time .. the national teams will get under19 teams to go, if not its going to be always hard to a kid have a place to particpate in a big competition and their development will be stopped.

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www.underwater-hockey.blogspot.com

I like Torto's expansion of Fred's consectutive weeks thinking with the U19 first idea. They usually only have 3-6 teams so it could be done quickly and easily and then the flaws of the organizers and video systems can be worked out before the elite competition starts. The elite could easily squeeze in some practice slots during their week so we could have more than two days to get used to a bottom that causes bobbles.

As far as getting to adultry, Fred, I think you mean adulthood. Hockey has been in adultry for many years. Well, as I think about it, maybe you really meant it that way. Some jokes don't transfer well in text. Whether the split is good or not will be determined with time. I like to think of the split as a necessary part of growth to adulthood. Much like a teenager. You can't really appreciate being an adult if you don't rebel a bit to learn what problems can arise so you can prevent them. Without the split, who would question many of the things that have been questioned over the past few years? And in the end, we should end up with a better product as the winning org, if there is one, will have had to do things right to get the countries to follow their lead.

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Just in case you weren't sure, it's official -- CMAS sucks.
Oh yeah, and now they're broke.