2008 CMAS European Championships

I will try to find time to repply to Carol earlier post in the course of the week - Yes as amazing as it seems some people do work in Europe! - but just a short one here:

Carol and Graham can only speak english.

Actual CMAS leaders (Ferrero, Dernier) speak italian, french, dutch, english, spanish.

Fred speaks french, spanish, dutch and has a little english comprehension like deeperone has noticed.

I speak french, italian, dutch with even fewer english comprehension than Fred.

We can discuss with Fererro and Dernier because we speak their languages. Which doesn't mean that we agree with them (actually we of course strongly disagree on many points with them like we strongly disagree on many points with WAA).

We (France, Turkey, Italy, Belgium, Slovenia and a bit less Spain) have obtained the round robin in Bari for men (and a double for women) that was suppose to be impossible to obtain according to Carol and Graham.

Most people playing UWH on earth cannot speak english (or they have a poor comprehension like Fred and myself). In a matter of fact, I do believe that actually most people playing UWH on earth speak...french, but NO ONE can repply to this one as no complete OFFICIAL figure of the number of UWH players are available.

Still I am ready to recon that, perhaps, aquachallengers are mainly english speakers.

This language issue is a real problem for the communication of the former CMAS UWH Com had with CMAS, like it is an internal problem for the communication between Carol, Graham, Ulysse and Donato and for the communication with non anglo-saxons countries.


For the future, we don't want to speak with Dernier and Ferrero for Graham or the others federations anymore. It is not our jobs and we have waisted and incredible amount of time with that. This is the job of a Commission UWH inside CMAS. If former CMAS UWH Com members are fed up with CMAS fine I can really understand that. But they have to leave it clearly and don't play a poor double face political game which has for only consequence that people who have nothing to do with their interpersonnal ego conflicts have to assume their taskes. Without mentionning the poor effect it has on the game developpement (Like Carol's intervention to German UWH players to prevent them to join BARI that had the amusing consequence that German UWH players were in Bari ...with the German UWRugby team).

Still we can make uninformed guesses...

You seriously reckon there are more uwh players in France, Belgium and Quebec than New Zealand, South Africa, Australia, the rest of Canada, the USA, Ireland and the UK?

Seems like the eurocentricity is pretty ingrained up there.

Actually, your uninformed guess is a lot shakier than you might think. There are a lot of french speaking players running around. Spanish and Dutch also form a huge proportion of our ranks. I certainly wouldn't be willing to put money on the idea that there are more english speakers playing hockey than any other language. If you put it to the test the numbers in South Africa would probably save you, unless you consider a great number of them to be Afrikaans speakers with english as a second language...

And besides, Buwh isn't trying to say that everyone in the world should attempt to become gallic as soon as possible. He's saying that the english ability of the leadership of CMAS is atrocious. Just as the ability of anybody in the UWH commission to speak any other language is also atrocious. Thus cultural and communications difficulties make it very easy for both sides to become frustrated and annoyed at the other.

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It's not whether you win or lose - but whether I win or lose.

It would seem Belgium Underwater Hockey players see themselves the same way Belgium sees itself in the European Union, the centre of everything.

I will take your bet bent fish boy and raise you double on such a gimmy.

Also Buwh isn't Ulysse Munoz on the commission and he was also the President of the Commission before WTD and he is very French and the president before him was french. Mr Munoz is supporting the WAA from what I have read from WTD. Seems to me he too may have had a communication problem with CMAS and it certainly wasn't over language.

It is always easy to use the language card as some sort of justification for not listening as is continually saying its about ego .

As I have said before and and everyone seems to ignore that if it was about ego then the hockey commission wouldn't want to talk to CMAS, but that is exactly what they have tried to do on numerous occasions. If you are going to use language or ego as an excuse why not throw race or religion in there as well. You can always ignore the facts when you use either of those because it gives everybody an easy way out and they don't have to think about what may be the real truth.

Also Buwh you have mentioned about the German hockey players that Carol Rose stopped from going to Bari, now you cant just throw an accusation like that out there without backing it up, so tell us all the story so we can judge to. Or are you just following your CMAS masters rules?

I find it interesting that you have your say then tell us all we should not be listening to the WAA people, I think they are doing what is right for the future development of the game and they are the ones who actually care unlike your CMAS mates.

I looks like from what I have read from you that you are a puppet for CMAS so just come on out and say it, oops sorry you have already.

Later Gator

Them's sound's like a fightin' words. What's it goin' be pucks at 2 metres?

flame central.

i quite like how people trying to logically dicuss the issues seem to be approaching things calmly and in a reasoned manner, and then people like deeperone just flame the **** out of anyone who doesnt dance to their tune.

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it's more polite on the grating than on the subs bench

Good one Mr Atepene I would have said that is exactly what Buwh has done and why I responded so critically, are you trying tio say his rant was not emotive sighting knowledge of numbers with no factual basis and language problems when a french native is on the commission.

Or is it just another example of stick with your mates and don't really analyze what I am saying. I love your idea of logic and calm, so please apply it to all concerned and not just to someone who doesn't agree with your mate.

Of course I am only assuming that you know Buhw so if you would like to tell me i am incorrect feel free to do so.

I stand by every word of what I wrote, hell isn't that what forums are for.

Later Gator

Na Southernpuck it will be pucks at 3 as I like to be in tune with the rules

So brave to flame, critisize, call out, judge and attack...
yet you won't justify yourself by telling us who you are?

Are you a Troll or a coward?
(i like themz Trolls ;-)

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If former CMAS UWH Com members are fed up with CMAS fine I can really understand that. But they have to leave it clearly and don't play a poor double face political game which has for only consequence that people who have nothing to do with their interpersonnal ego conflicts have to assume their taskes. Without mentionning the poor effect it has on the game developpement (Like Carol's intervention to German UWH players to prevent them to join BARI that had the amusing consequence that German UWH players were in Bari ...with the German UWRugby team).[/quote]

ummmmmm 2 points I guess:
1) there are no ''former uwh comm members' unless you are going back beyond 2005.
2) regarding the 'invertervention to German uwh player to prevent them to join Bari' - this is nonsense. I did no such thing. I have not spoken to any German uw hockey player since before Sheffield when one of them contacted me to say they could not attend Sheffield - due to total lack of support for their uwh team by their federation. I know the federation does support their uw rugby teams.

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Carol Rose