Cmas 2009?

Naturally, the comments below assume that UWH is still part of CMAS in 2009...!

I'm sure those that were at Bari, or have read the other thread ("Bari - the good the bad and the ugly") will understand why I've started a new one to focus on the possiblity of the 2009 event.

I have heard that CMAS has already nominated the person who will be in charge of organizing the 2009 event (possible hosts at the moment are – Hungary, Morocco, Tunisia or Dubai). From what I understand he is a Chilean who lives six months of the year in France and who has already requested a spec sheet for underwater hockey.

Following on from what Fred said, I think that it would be a great idea if representatives of all the teams who will be "obliged" to attend the 2009 CMAS championships work together to provide a detailed list of everything that should be provided in order for the event to be of the quality that the players deserve and are used to.

It would be a shame if these teams lost interest in our sport because they can't attend WAA events (for whatever reason, be it financial or due to pressure from their federation) and the CMAS championships are a mess… It could seriously curb the international development of our sport. I think that if we want our sport to expand and to be taken seriously on a worldwide level, it has to be known throughout the world… Although they might not play as well as the "majors" the "smaller" underwater hockey countries are just as important.

Working together, presenting a united front and providing one set of specifications (the consensus of everyone's requests – on and off pitch, e.g., including communication, accommodation info, etc.) as soon as possible is surely the way to try to ensure that everyone stands a chance of getting the conditions they want and deserve… even if the experienced members at the commission refuse to get involved.

If nothing comes of it, then everyone will know that the CMAS is a waste of space. One thing for sure though - if the nations that have to attend don't try to do something proactive then it's guaranteed that the games will be a shambles and it's not fair to the players…

Those "obliged" to attend CMAS 2009 will also need to think about how the referee situation can be resolved. As Fred said, the refs sacrifice their holidays to help out and get nothing but criticism in return. How can we ensure that "decent refs and chief refs and people who could tell the scorers etc what they needed to be doing" will attend? We need to find an incentive, otherwise why would they want to give up a week of their time? If you were in their shoes, would you want to?

hello
because I have registred too late on this forum I couldn't contribute to the previous forum "Bari - the good the bad and the ugly". So on, it was good to be in Bari.

I have played and coached in Worlds and Euros. In Bari I felt something different, I felt that the competition was important.
Beside the problem of uwh organisation and the "farce" of refering, it was a great event and we had the opportunity to make something good from this.

I think we need something new to develop the community. In nearly 10 years that I have contacts with the international level, I don't see any improvement.
I want to give a chance to this concept of Cmas games. We (uwh community) just have to participate to the organisation in the way to assure that it is cheap enough for all the team to come.

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GG

Thanks Scarface, always glad to hear there are people willing to listen.

Together with BUWH (Romain), I am planning on organizing a European summit about the things we want from CMAS.
Of course, this will also be presented to the other countries, but getting the Europeans together is currently much easier.

It shouldn't immediately be seen as a "take it or leave it" proposal towards CMAS. It should show we have a united front and also show our federation presidents we are serious.

If I'm not mistaken, hockey is represented in 34 countries, which means that we should easily get the support of 34 presidents in the annual meeting if we play our cards right. If everybody says the same. And if all presidents that represent hockey say the same thing, the others will assume it must be so.
Maybe I am naive, and yes Carol, I know you will agree to it, but at least we would have a collective attempt.

Speaking from a PR/Communications point of view, CMAS Games is the best way to get our sport international exposure. On the condition that we don't have a media idiot running the comms, like was the case this year.

<<If I'm not mistaken, hockey is represented in 34 countries, which means that we should easily get the support of 34 presidents in the annual meeting if we play our cards right. If everybody says the same. And if all presidents that represent hockey say the same thing, the others will assume it must be so. Maybe I am naive, and yes Carol, I know you will agree to it, but at least we would have a collective attempt.>>

Last time I looked, there were about 25 fedrations registered in uw hockey. That means 25 countries, who pay dues to Sports Committee, then also pay dues to uw hockey commission. This membership gives these countries the right to vote at and for uw hockey commission, nominate to the commission and play in CMAS sanctioned events for uw hockey.

Now then, NOT all the 25 member feds play uw hockey in the international level or at all - ie Cypress belongs. It appears a few federations just join all the uw sport commissions on general principles.

New then, we come to a CMAS General Meeting. How many hockey persons are there?????? well, me, perhaps Graham, maybe someone from Canada. All other reps are federation presidents.

Yes, some of those presidents know their underwater hockey teams exist, some even ask their uw hockey exec about agenda items that may impinge on uw sport, but most do not. Holland is a good example of a responsible president. Ok there's one.

AND many many uw hockey federations do not attend General assemblies. I and others try and push to get proxies from, say, S Africa, NZ, Canada (they are not regular attendees), and I am usually succsssful, but remember the proxy must come from the fed president, not the hockey exec.And, for many such as those I listed, it is a damned long way to travel for a 2 day meeting, costing big bucks in time and money.

And how many federations are in CMAS? how many are our 25 up against? or in actuality, our 10? The other feds do not care about uw hockey concerns, why should they?

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Carol Rose

Hungry Morocco Tunisia or Dubai, must be good to live in Europe. It seems what some people have said in the past might be coming true

I have cut and pasted below some stuff that was on the BOA web site forum from WTD it was posted in Jan this year.

[We have no assurances of the rotation of this championship, we are now being told that the CMAS games are already being planned for 2009. The commission has a policy of rotation of the worlds around the globe so as to even out the costs to individual countries. What if the next 2 championships end up in Oceania or the Americas, then it would become quite expensive for the Europeans to compete, Likewise it would not be good for the rest of the world if the next 2 were also held in Europe. The other countries players would simply not be able to afford to go so then the standard starts dropping, how is this good for our sport, this is just another issue that needs to be canvassed.]

Mr Scarface why are you obliged to attend CMAS championship?, pay your own way like we do and you can play in whatever tournament you like.

It is interesting that you will organise all this stuff for CMAS, as I thought the fees that you pay was for them to do that, so are you telling us that they are incompetent?

Later Gator

Jeezes Deeperon,

WE KNOW they are incompetent. That is why we have to get our own people in.

Yes, there might not be many advantages about CMAS, but here are the advantages I see.

1. From a promotion/marketing/communication point of view, it is actually more interesting to work together with sports such as uwh-rugby, finswimming etc. In Belgium we positioned our federation as being the largest undwatersports federation with the largest offer and most members. It's like a company with a wide product range. Get some professionalism in the sport.

2. In countries that don't yet have an underwaterhockey team, it is easier to set one up. I have just moved to Sweden and setting up an underwaterhockey team here. You go to the local Swedish CMAS federation and get some help setting it up, instead of doing everything from scratch. One less step towards growth

3. As posted on the other thread, there are some countries that do get money for promotion etc, only because they are part of CMAS.

Yes, we know they are incompetent, but in that case, we can do two things. Either we finally start pushing all together (like Carol has been trying) and use the structure CMAS has, or we start everything up from scratch again, making us even smaller and more insignificant on an international level.

You keep talking about paying yourself. Well convince a couple of people to go to the annual meeting to show CMAS who we are. Or contribute in to getting the kiwis etc there so they can support us. I am willing to spend money on it.

Fred,
I am a bit confused on what you want the Kiwi's etc support on?
I am sure if you are helping CMAS to organise a European Champs at the same time as the World Champs in Durban that no one from the Southern Hemisphere will support you. If you are looking at developing a proposal that brings the UWH commission and CMAS back together to work in an honest and open way I am sure people would consider supporting you.
If there is an actual and definite split between CMAS and WAA then like all countries the SH countries will have to choose and seeing the WAA president runs the Underwater commission in Australia I am sure Australia will go with WAA.

Tan

Tan,

I understand your confusion, and most likely I expressed myself wrong. I'm sorry for that.
I am currently already looking beyond Durban. Let's have a look at the next CMAS games, where the countries of the Southern Hamisphere can attend.
It's crucial that we get that one right, but in that case we have to start laying the foundations now.
For sure our friends from the South have no connection with the Euros. What I was trying to say, is that we have to start putting up a strategy.
In the meanwhile, the countries that would attend the Euros, instead of Durban, need already to stick a foot in the door, so for the next CMAS games, the rest of the uwh world can come in with a lot of noise

given the cities listed as possible Games 2009, why would America, Oceania and/or S Africa be any more likelyto attend than Bari in 2007?????

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Carol Rose

Sure the list of cities isn't great for all continents, but where were the four worlds before Sheffield? They all were outside of Europe as well.
So yes you can complain now of not being treated in a fair way, but has the commission always been that balanced?
I don't think so if you look at the current history.

And as Romain said on the other thread, the ausies and the kiwis will always have to travel far, but that doesn't mean we can't support them.

Probably stupid comparison, but I was reading about the world jamboree that took place a few weeks ago in England. The richer countries and countries located close to the venue, paid a bit more and that money was put in a fund to help the other countries come over. That's a possibility.

There are always solutions if you keep on searching for them. And those problems that don't have a solution, become facts with which we have to learn to live.
Now seeing this issue, I refuse to see it as a fact.