worlds 2008

Correct me if i'm wrong.
You could probably still send a random team, as long as it's not under the GB/BOA/whatever banner.
Banning seems to be on a country level, as well as an individual level, so even if you call yourself Team (America) and go for de-briefing and cocktails, you'll still be banned as an individual player.

[quote=Duck;5771]I find it it hilarious that you would say South Africa is too far for European countries. I believe our (USA) two best options in flight routes to SA go through either Frankfurt or London. Perhaps after Europe gets off its "we're Europe" kick then people might give a bigger damn about them not being there.

As far as the timing of World's in Sheffield, how was the timing of it last time a bad thing?

sorry duck i was away..
yeah man,i totally agree with you,europe seems to be in a bubble,i guess cause we have lots of different tournaments here that we can fly or drive to pretty easily and we have the europeans.
i would go to durban and i have nooooo money at all but it takes 14 people for a team to decide to go long haul for a big tournament so looks like i´ll be making double choc
cookies on my own.

.when i was referring to sheffield being bad timing,

if you could imagine sheffield being on in march 08 instead of durban,then at least waa would have all (or most)the european teams there which would show cmas that there is support for waa,it woud ljust give us a better stand against this clash of competitions.

we are pitching a battle against cmas(battle for support not supremecy),like every battle a terrein has to be picked and a time of year,what carol rose says about focusing on juniors,well that just highlighted what i think waa needs to do(to gain maximum support)
when to have it(timing) which is really bad
where to have it(which is really far for most people)

these above things are strong tactics,sure are´nt we the best tacticians there are,we spend most of our lives thinking on how to get past opposition,well lads and lassies...
here we are
but this time its for real..
no training needed,no power lifting just brains and co operation.
so we have 2010 to look forward to...tactics where is there a good place where there are lots of different teams and then when to have it.


in europe we are lots of small fish but we definetly fill a christmas stocking...

oh i hope i´m getting my point accross clear,took me ages to type,me nose is killin me.

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OH..
so now that world wide hockey is in shreds then i can play for another country that is not my own origin,(once we dont play under that national banner)

otto this is not aiming at you but we had some discussions earlier in the year about playing for your own country,thats when hockey was intact.

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if the team you want to play for are willing to risk their medals, and you dont' mind being banned... depends on your circumstances. I might want to return to my country of origin adn play for them at the next CMAS games, so I'm not goign to risk being banned, even though I'm itching to play. Euro comps will just have to do for now. Slovenia was pretty cool. hopefully there will be some more good ones coming up.

Okay, I'm imagining... still working on those images... just not getting it. In theory it sounds good but it doesn't work. If the European teams that are afraid of getting banned don't go to Durban because of that fear, they wouldn't go to Sheffield for the same reason. The teams not going to Durban are either motivated by fear or money or both. The teams that are going want the highest competition they can find on the planet and are willing to stare fear in the face and laugh. Or something really motivational like that.

The turnout at Euros will speak volumes of what the countries that attend want. I would suggest that if the European teams want to make a stand they can do so without getting punished by anyone just by not going to Europeans. That would be a stand. Showing up and competing for an event by a tyrannical overseeing organization that needs to make threats to the very people it is supposed to represent and support is nothing but an admission of fear and show of submission. There are options and people need to know what they are.

I'm not saying it will be easy for everyone and it may not be possible for some to ever leave the tyrany, but that doesn't mean you have to support it. And for the leaders within a country, you may want to find a way to support your players even if it means letting them create a new organization outside of what you currently have so that they can do what they love to do.... compete against the best. Perhaps you will lose some money but if you can't provide for their needs, let someone else do it.

So stand up and show me your brass pucks...

Brass Duck

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Just in case you weren't sure, it's official -- CMAS sucks.
Oh yeah, and now they're broke.

Hi,

Just to quickly clarify on the European teams.
Distance has nothing to do with it. Duck, where were the last 6 worlds before Sheffield? All outside Europe and the European teams went. Yes, Belgium didn't but that was because we didn't have a team.

You are right when you say the money is an issue.
But in my opinion, overseeing the European countries (and especially the smaller ones) there are three main reasons:
1. Fear of getting banned by CMAS and losing government funds (as you rightfully say)
2. It is more interesting for certain smaller countries to compete with nations of their own level, or slightly higher, as there is a bit more they can learn than when travelling to SA and get your ass kicked 24-1 (best case scenario) by Liam & Co. Within this scope the Euros is more appealing. The situation might be a bit different for Turkey, but this is more related to EU-membership aspects
3. Currently a lack of faith in the WAA organization as nothing is official yet, communications about the tournament are still very vague and the legal risk is still there.

So far for, especially, the smaller European countries in my PERSONAL opinion based upon conversations I had with several people in those countries.

Talk to you soon,
Fred

Which completely supports my questioning of Stevebrry and his "if only the WAA were in Europe this year... blah blah. There would still be no supprot from those teams.

I find flaw in the don't go compete against teams that can kick your butt attitude/argument. While there will be some games with wiping of the pool bottom, there will be others that might only be 6-0 where despite getting beat you may learn something. If you are aware of history you may recall a certain Australia team that won the final by a huge score (by possibly bad memory 10-0 or so) over a team that now, some 15 years later, are the Champs. Imagine what the other teams felt like. But if you look at the competition it is a lot closer now down through 8 or 10 teams than it was for that final. I recall one game going 19-0 in '92 and AUS was really pushing to get that 20th goal. Columbia has finished in the top 8 twice since then.

Imagine if only we had not gone again until we were as good as Australia was, and the rest of the teams did that too. It doesn't matter that a country is new or small or poor, if they want to get better they need to do it against teams that are better. And not just one or two teams that are better. A whole tournament of better teams until they are one of those better teams. So for maybe two or three teams at Euros your argument might hold water, but for the rest... Stand Up or quit your *****in' and we'll see how everything comes through the wash.

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Just in case you weren't sure, it's official -- CMAS sucks.
Oh yeah, and now they're broke.

Duck,

1. we both agree Steven's point is a bit irrelevant. Sorry Steven
2. You are absolutely right when you say playing against better teams increases your level. That's why we play UK, France and the Netherlands on a regular bases with our Belgian team. Closeby and two out the top 3 in Sheffield.
Of course we learn from it and are happy to do so, despite the fact we get trashed every time. Believe me when I tell you we don't mind losing as long as we learn.
. Other than that, we can have direct competitors against who we can put our learnings in practice (Spain, Ireland etc) and in that case the Euros is more interesting.
BTW, we lost Australia 21-1 in Sheffield and was one of the most fun I had during the tournament.

3. Our Belgian federation doesn't allow us to go as Belgium due to CMAS legislation, legal risks and lack of communication about the organization. So even if we have a team ready, we're in the same boat as the GB squad.
Of course one might say than: sure, but just come as a team in that case. In my opinion, I fail to see the difference with any other tournament in that case.

duck quoted
"If the European teams that are afraid of getting banned don't go to Durban because of that fear, they wouldn't go to Sheffield for the same reason. The teams not going to Durban are either motivated by fear or money or both. "

i see people like sheep,its a known theory.
if one team(esp a strong team) the rest follow or most of them(except for the ones like spain that are risking a lot of money from their federation)

if the worlds or this situation was at the time of sheffield then there would be some teams that would go to waa worlds as opposed to euros,im sure ireland is one.

ok,having the waa comp in europe,which is closer to home(for lots of little nations) will narrow down the chance of those countries saying no to go to the waa comp.

duck,if you say that there are 8 hard core teams that will go anywhere in the world for a top comp (now this is gonna sound bad,sorry but its more of a tactic and tactics have no consience)
then let those countries travel as they will travel anyway and bring the comp close to the weak nations(or the scardy cats) europe(this will only increase participants)
as we are not dealing with just the worlds now,we are dealing with the popularity poll for waa
and having loads of countries is whats needed in the waa.

wow that was hard,i do hope i managed to get soem sort of info accross,if not i wont go any further with it.

oh duck i like your idea about boycotting the euros,i was thinking of that myself and if you play against world class player will only better you.

for a duck that goes quak qauk you sure pull out some good info.
ahhh yes great minds think alike,but not too alike..

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